New owner questions...

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Postby Guest » Wed May 30, 2001 8:40 pm

Having just ordered my J80 for delivery in July I'd like to ask a couple of questions.

1. Does anyone tow a J80 using a normal car or station wagon instead of an SUV - I've not got any idea what the US regulations for towing are because I'm a Brit.

2. Any advice on clubs to race at in the New York area would be welcome.

3. Is it ok for the bilge pump to drain into the cockpit - it seems a long and difficult run to feed a drain to the transom.

Thanks,

Adrian.
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Postby Guest » Thu May 31, 2001 5:53 am

Congratulatios to you new J/80!

I do not know about 1 and 2, as far as question 3 goes, my bilge pump drains through the hull on the side (high and on the same level as the bilge pump)
Having used a J/80 for 2 years I believe this is a good arrangement and would not like the idea of the bilge water to drain into the cockpit. (From my experiecne the water is not always clean and free from smell....)

Regards
Bob von Felten
#95 Cafe Latte
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Postby Guest » Thu May 31, 2001 7:51 am

I do not think there are any "regulations" specifying the type of tow vehicle you use, but do not exceed the towing capacities published by the manufacturer. In my opinion, you really need something with a fairly long wheelbase and a V-8, though I know some people get by with less. If you are towing short distances, I imagine a smaller vehicle would do OK.
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Postby Guest » Thu May 31, 2001 8:11 am

Adrian

I have a Y2K J/80 that came with the Triad double axle trailer. I estimate that this makes a towing package that weighs in at a little under 3800 lbs and measures at least 30 feet long. So whatever you plan to tow it with will need to have that capacity. Not many cars that I know of are rated to tow more than 3000 lbs. I have a Toyota Tacoma pickup that is rated to tow 5000 lbs which I've used to tow the boat for short distances (20 miles or so) without a problem but I would not feel comfortable using it to tow for any long distances. Having spent a lot of years towing large horse trailers around the country during my horse showing days I learned that the weight of the towing vehicle is important for stopping. A 4000lb trailer moving at 60 mph is a lot of dead weight for the average passenger car to stop and keep under control if the trailer brakes fail. As for US regs: If you're crazy enough to strap a hitch on it, I don't think anyone much cares if you tow it with a Volkswagen Beetle.

Can't help you with clubs in New York but the person to ask is probably Martin Kald who lives there. If you can't locate him let me know, I think I have his Email address around somewhere.

I do not have a fixed bilge pump and not many of the boats I have seen do (although Kerry Klingler describes an installation in his article in this forum that you might want to look at). My boat lives in the water all season and most of the water in the bilges has been rainwater from the mast. I use a hand pump and just pump it out into the cockpit or a hand held bucket.

Best of luck with the new boat

John
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Postby Guest » Thu May 31, 2001 12:57 pm

When I bought my J-80 last year I called Triad trailers. Triad advised me that the gross weight of the boat + trailer was about 4,900 lbs. I do not know whether this weight includes the gear one would normally load with the boat on the trailer (e.g. outboard motor, mast, rigging, sails, etc.).

In my experience, you need a full size truck or SUV, preferably with a big block engine, to haul this boat and trailer over any extended distance.
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Postby Guest » Thu May 31, 2001 1:44 pm

I have a bilge pump that exits out the stern, above the water line. I keep the boat in the water, and just hand pump or sponge out water from the bilge area. I have not even used the one that came with the boat. When not in use, it coils up neatly and is bungied to the steel support bracket just forward of the instrument panel.
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Postby Guest » Thu May 31, 2001 7:23 pm

Fascinating the different weights, I should have weighed mine on a truck scale when I was hauling it. I called Triad and they told me the trailer was 1,400. I added 2,900 for the boat (no extra gear) and concluded I was 4,300. FWIW
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Postby Guest » Fri Jun 01, 2001 8:49 am

Craig

You are probably closer to the correct weight. Triad has all the trailer specifications on it's website EXCEPT the weight of the trailers and when I called on two different occasions I got two different numbers from them - 900# and 1300# for the trailer weight. Either way it's 4000# plus or minus and I agree that a full size pick up or SUV for any distance is a must.

John
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Postby Guest » Fri Jun 01, 2001 10:19 am

I think the boats are more like 3300 lbs, particularly with any gear (outboard, anchor, etc.), so I imagine your towing weight is at least 4500 lbs. Anybody ever weighed theirs on a truck scale?
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Postby Guest » Thu Jun 07, 2001 10:25 am

1. Towing...I used an old style Jeep Cherokee with the 4.0L V6 and had a lot of problems. I recently upgraded to a Toyota Sequoia V8 SUV and have had no problems. An equally good choice is the Ford Expedition.

2. There are several J-80s that sail out of Raritan Yacht Club in Perth Amboy, New Jersey.

3. I wouldn't pump into the cockpit...I like dry lines as much as possible.
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Postby Guest » Sun Jun 10, 2001 11:22 am

Would you elaborate on the problems you experienced towing with a Jeep Cherokee
Nigel
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Postby Guest » Sun Jun 10, 2001 9:18 pm

Well guys, finally have an answer on boat weight. Mine (Y2K model) weighed in at the Worlds in Newport at 1550 kilos with a suit of sails, outboard and all running rigging aboard. Some of the pre 1999 boats however were as much as 70 kilos lighter than the minimum 1495 called for in the rules and had to add corrector weights.
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Postby Guest » Fri Jun 15, 2001 6:27 pm

I recently weighed my boat, trailer and car (BMW X5, V8) at a truck scale, and the total was just over 10,000 lbs. The X5 specs say it weighs 4,828 empty - call it an even 5,000 with gas and other stuff. So the boat and trailer are a bit over 5,000 pounds. My trailer is not a Triad, it is a double-axle float-off by another company, can't remember the name.
But, the X5 tows it beautifully - very stable. Really cuts the gas mileage though!
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Postby Guest » Wed Aug 08, 2001 12:31 pm

I am in the process of acquiring a J80, and need to know how the mast can be lowered, trailered, and restepped, using a gin pole or ?. For instance, what do I use as a gin pole, how is it stabilized, etc.? Are there diagrams or specific directions available?
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Postby Guest » Wed Aug 08, 2001 4:55 pm

Mike-

I have raised and lowered my mast about 10 times since purchasing my boat last fall. There are many others that have done it this many times for years but here goes my lessons learned:

1.) The balance point for a rigged mast (shrouds, halyards, forestay) is about 18 inches above the lower spreaders. Whether using a mast crane or gin pole I recommend lifting from this point. To do this I tie a loop (3-4") into a line leaving around 10' on each side of the loop. I throw both tails over the top of the spreader then loop one tail over the other. I pull the tail down and cleat on the horn cleat so that the small loop is around 18" above the spreader. If done correctly this should create a half hitch around the mast with the small loop staying in position. (The lifting linie is attached to this loop prior to throwinig over the spreader) The tails are long so that if you'r raising the mast you can retrieve this loop. Many owners succesfully tie a loop down low and run it up to the bottom of the first set of spreaders and lift from this point. This is far easier and the out of balance weight is not too much for one person to handle. I prefer to not lift against the spreaders as I do not want to put any unneccesary stress on them. I'm sure its OK I just do not want to do it.

2. The most important thing to do is to protect the forestay. Don't know if you have the metal or plastice but the issues are the same. When raising the mast I keep the forestay secured to the mast in the area of the drum and up as high as I will be able to reach. When the mast butt is lowered through the deck I then remove the forestay and let it hang over the side of the boat. Once the mast is set down on the step I then attach the forestay and shrouds. Same process in reverse. I've seen a few broken forestays this year (both metal and plastic) be very careful.

3.) Gin pole. I do not have one but may build one this winter. I've used mast cranes at all of the stops that I have made this year. Heigth depends upon where you prefer to attach your lifting rope to the mast. I believe I have heard that 17' is a good length for the gin pole. I have seen two types:

a.) two supporting members that attach in the area of the toe rail. supported with a line forward and to the stern. Block and tackle to lift the mast. The gin pole straddles the deck hole but in fron of it. The mast is lifted and the butt of the mast, which was forward ends up behind this frame.

b.) One single support with three supporting lines. One forward two to the stern. This is the design I will probably use. I'll put a rubber foot on the bottom of the pole. Constant length forestay and run the two stern lines to the primaries to tension.

ONE ADDITIONAL NOTE: Various tuning guides/installation instructions call for putting the mast blocks in prior to tensioning the rig. My last set up I left them out, centered the mast using the uppers and found that I needed more blocks on the left side to keep the mast centered. Sure enough doing it this way kept all of the turns on the uppers, intermediates, and lowers equal. Whereas in the past I was putting equal blocks on each side and then tuning which was much more difficult to get the mast straight. What I believe is that the deck hole may not be centered on my mast step. Luckily my mast did align with my keel when I checked it.

Hope this helps. Good luck with the boat.
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