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PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 10:09 am
by Guest
Dave,

I agree!! Speaking from a person who has been living on Metamucil ( sugar free)/pickels/ diet coke and lite beer on weekends only.

PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 10:46 am
by Guest
In the Farr 40 class the owners have a default weight. Meaning that if they exceed the weight, it will not make a bit of difference. Their weight is 175 lbs. Maybe make a helmsmans weight 180 for the J80 class. If you weigh less, then weigh in and it will allow for your crew to weigh more.

PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 11:26 am
by Guest
So it's settled;

for 2006 we will raise the limit back to 800lbs for the Southern Circuit.

We need to get back to the level of participation we had in the past.

thanks for everyones' input.

Chris

PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 8:48 pm
by Guest
I was talking with Glenn Darden over the weekend and he agreed that if boats were not showing up at events becuase of weight issues then he agreed we should raise the limit.
I really like the defualt owners weight. It does no good having the additional weight in the back of the boat. But this will help equalize the actuall weight on the rail issue. Me being 230-235
and Glenn Darden for example being 140-150 Glen has a 60-70 lbs advantage of actuall weight on the rail. That will leave him with about 600 to play with.......So it's clear that the rule favors smaller drivers.
My vote is for a Skipper Default weight of the average 186 lbs................
This will make it fair for all involved....

PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2005 8:14 am
by Guest
I'll second Dave's vote and forgo the cabbage soup!! Would this start next year or this year at the NOOD?

PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2005 10:40 am
by Guest
Crew weight is legitimate concern with regards to drawing new boats and existing boats to the circuits, but another just important concern is not having a Regional Web-site to EXCITE / INFORM owners & crew about the circuit. For example, where are the results for this years circuit, who won overall, what’s the dates for next year, how many races will count toward the seasons overall results, etc.
You almost have to know someone or be connected to learn the dates of the circuit. And if your a new owner, its hard to know who to call etc.
If you look at the J22s and J24s, they both have regional web-sites {Southern Region -Texas, Oklahoma, Louisiana} (not just their national web-site like this one). They have pre-registration online (with who’s coming) along with the notice of race and current circuit standings. I'm not saying they are the best web sites, but at least it something. There were something like 20+ J80 boats registered for the 2005 HYC NOOD before it was cancelled, you could argue that people had a web-site to see where, when and who was coming….there’s no reason why circuit stops shouldn’t have less than 20 boats.
The weight limit is definitely a concern, along with sail material, controlling costs, etc but not the only reason from keeping people from attending circuits and building the Southern Circuit fleets.

PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2005 10:43 am
by Guest
Correction - Last sentence should read: there’s no reason why circuit stops should have less than 20 boats

PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 9:08 pm
by Guest
Is this a done deal? i.e. is the Southern Circuit going to be at 800 lbs?

Expect to see Ghost Dancing return in 2006

Steve Strout

PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 1:11 am
by Guest
The crew weight limit will forever remain a topic in this class. This current thread doesn't seem to bring any new new ideas. If I recall correctly, the 800# limit was done down in Texas several years ago. The light weight skippers had no interest in allowing skippers to declare 100 kg weight like in the J/105 class...the thought being weight at the back end of the boat is not a particularly good thing. When I weighed 245, I found it was hard to put together a team weighing 745. I have taken off 50 and the problem is not as great for me.

Recently I have been researching what some other classes are doing. One that at first seems a little complicated, but nonetheless intreging is the Star Class system. They use a formula:
C=(100-S)/1.5 + 100 where C=Crew weight S=Skipper Weight. Weights are in Kg. For the J/80 class, a comparable formula would be C=(85-S)/1.5 + 255.

I put this idea out there as a concept. In this formula a skipper weighing 85 Kg (187#) would be allowed a crew weighing 255 Kg (561#). When the skipper weighs 100 kg (220#), his crew could be 245 Kg (539#). For a light skipper weighing 70 Kg (154#) his crew would be 265 Kg (583#). The result of a formula approach would allow smaller skippers to continue to recruit larger crews, but total crew/skipper weight would be less than crew/skipper weight when the skipper is heavy

Just food for thought
Terry Burke
TopNotch USA 405

PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 1:35 pm
by Guest
The bottom line is if the weight goes up to 800 lbs we will have more boats. Even if 1 more boat that starts sailing again, we are that much more of a stronger Class. Proof is Goast Dancer will return. Then the East and West coasts will want to change their rules to enjoy larger classes. And hopefully be able to have a North American with that same rule. The Europeans don't seem to follow the rules very much. Lets do what's best for the class in the USA not ISAF or France.

PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 1:26 am
by Guest
Bottom line is america is full of Fat Asses, many of whom own J80's. JC, boys ever hear of the gym. If any of you were 6'6", it might be legitimate. But most of lard asses are 5'10"- 215. What a lesson for your kids....son I'm too fat, too lazy to hit the gym and don't give a s about my health....but by god these rules are too constrictive so they need changed. I mean 746/4 is 186, you guys sound like its 145 or something. Ever hear of vegetables!!!!!!

PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 1:28 am
by Guest
In case anyone forgot...it is supposed to be a SPORT!

PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 1:21 pm
by Guest
I' agree with unregistered guest, is 800lbs really the answer? So you sail the circuits with 800lbs all next year, what do you do when the Worlds in Corpus come??? You practiced and tuned with too much weight. Someone below posted a reply saying they had to leave their wife ashore and only take 3 people (just curious whats the wieght of your crew and wife???)

PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 5:01 pm
by Guest
I guess the "unregister guest" lack of courage to display his/her name to their comments says a lot.

The problems with weight limits include:

1)Reduction of possible boat owners/participants in the J/80 class. As it is now, larger skippers will just skip by the J/80 class. I don't recall the J/80 class being in the position of ignoring a group of people on the large size. This hits everyone in the pocket book by reducing not just the number of participants but also the buying pool of potential new owners of used boats

2)The weight limits is that it obviously restricts the crew one would otherwise choose especially for skippers over 220#. The issue being that some crew jobs work best with stronger crew...such as when hoisting/dropping the spinnaker in a blow etc. It not all a matter of weight on the rail

2)Weight limits encourages unhealthy crash dieting. Some classes have chosen weigh-in techniques requiring reweigh-ins during the event to discourage crash dieting. I am not sure how popular this option

3)Obviously there are advantages upwind with having close to the max weight on the rail. There is almost no way to even get close to 745# with three crew members unless you can find a group of burly horses

4)Many have suggested a 800# limit. 800# may not be a bad option in that it would allow smaller teams to go with five crew averaging 160#...two crew weighing in a 200# and three at 133.

In a previous post I suggested a option based on what the Star class is doing based on a formula. I didn't generate any interest with this concept so with this post, I have another suggestion:

How about allowing overweight crews add additional penalty weight in the form of fixed lead added in the same locations in the boat as present? The amount of lead would be added based on a formula yet to be worked out (I am sure Rod Johnstone could calculate it out). With such a rule, the skipper can bring who he wants as crew and take a penalty that everyone can live with.

Just some thoughts?
Terry Burke
TopNotch #405

PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 6:35 pm
by Guest
I'm OK with the wieght increase to 800lbs if its made at an International level (effecting Worlds, North Americans, etc). I am of the same opinion as "Joe", if we sail the Southern Circuit (which I have not seen a schedule as of yet) with a crew wieght of 800lbs next year, we'll have esentially practiced for the Corpus Christi Worlds with a crew that will not weigh in. I'm all for adding more boats to circuit, however, with this being a year with the worlds in Texas, is it the right thing to do for the Southern Circuit?? Any opioions??