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PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2001 6:44 am
by Guest
Quite frequently when we gybe in moderate to strong wind we find the clew getting wrapped around the forestay. What are we doing wrong?
Is better to keep the spin sheet quite tight and relase it only slowly till it passed the forestay or would it be better to keep the sheet quite loose and let it go once it passes the forestay?

Are we starting the gybe too slow or too fast.
Any help would be much appreciated. Please wake up form you wintersleep and help us with our training down under....

Much appreciated

Bob

PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2001 7:30 pm
by Guest
I am a relative neophyte, but I find the chute hangs up more frequently in very light wind. In a nice breeze, jibing is smoother as long as the trimmer"pulls like a horse" to paraphrase Jay Lutz and the old sheet is free to run. This seems to be the most common screwup for us is that once the jibe starts we neglect the old sheet and it is not running freely. I am trying to concentrate on actively pulling it from in front of the aft block to keep it running.

PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2001 10:07 pm
by Guest
Bob,

I have a few suggestions:
1. If you are currently using a "conventional" sheet, attach a two foot strop of spectra braid to the center (or to the ends of the pair, if using two). This will keep the clew further away from the forestay during the gybe.
2. Make sure you have a nice tight roll on the furled jib.
3. Have someone positioned at the shrouds to help pull on the new sheet. Their angle allows them to more effectively pull the sail around the forestay.
4. Let the old sheet run completely free (flake it in the cockpit prior to the gybe and have someone pulling it through the block from the forward side) and just pull like crazy on the new one.
Good luck!

PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2001 4:46 am
by Guest
Thank you Chris,
what size of spectra do you recommend and is it OD class legal?

PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2001 4:48 am
by Guest
Thank you Chris,
what size of spectra do you recommend and is it OD class legal?

Just to make sure you are talking about a 2 foot strop where you connect to the clew of the sail?

Thanks

PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2001 5:40 pm
by Guest
Bob,

Strop or no strop the key to A-spin jibing is coordinating your turn with the spin trimmer.

1)Pick a puff or wave to accelerate and as you slowly bear off the trimmer eases the sheet. 2)Pretty soon after bearing down the old sheet is completely eased and the new sheet is pulled hard -all the while steering through the jibe slowly. Often the spinn is pulled around before the boom comes over.3) Helmsman, as he heads down -and after the old sheet is completely eased needs to pull two big handfuls of the old sheet in front of the block on the transome adding more slack to the old sheet. Then throw the boom if it does not come over by itself. 4)Mid deck crew can assit the new sheet and spin around by pulling the sheet at the shrouds. The spin trimmer will then need to catch up to the sheet slack (usually by the end of the jibe). 5) As the boom swings over and the sails load up be prepared to; Helmsman head down and Trimmer ease sheet.

I think this should help.

Jay Lutz

PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2001 8:43 pm
by Guest
Is the recommended 2 foot strop (1/4 inch spectra) half way on the spin sheet class legal?

How many are using it at what are the results

REgards

Bob

PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2001 9:56 pm
by Guest
Bob,

The way I read the rules, the sheet can be made of any material which meets the minimum diameter. To my knowledge it is class legal and is widely used. The strop connects to the clew of the spinnaker. An added advantage is that you can have the sheets completely rigged and still quickly connect to the sail.

PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2001 6:04 pm
by Guest
Thank you guys,

The strop and the changed technic seem to work well. Works well in light to moderate air (our of season winds), hopefully it will work in heavy air as well..

Bob von Felten

PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2001 6:54 pm
by Guest
Q1: Have never seen the strop you're all talking about. Is it just a two-foot piece of line with eye splices in both ends?
Q2: I'm sure I'll figure it out soon enough, but anyone care to provide guidance on shortening sail. I get the impression my 155% will be too much above 8-10 kts and a mainsail reef will make sense at 20 kts upwind unless I've got a lot of "railmeat." Only have the lightweight (.5 oz?) 65sqm a-sail, assume I won't want to risk it above 20 kts either.
Can't wait to launch...about 4 more weeks.

PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2001 11:15 pm
by Guest
Craig,

My strop is a two foot piece of braided spectra with an eye splice in one end, which is looped on itself over the spin sheet. I have also placed a knot in the spin sheet at the same location to prevent the strop from sliding along the sheet. The other end of the strop can be used to tie a bowline onto the clew.

PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2001 6:33 am
by Guest
Dear Craig,
I got a professional rigger to splice a 2feet heavy duty spectra rope (the one they use for boomvangs without cover) at the end of the 2 sheets. I looks like a tee but works well. If you have a conditous sheet thats better less splicing.
The rigger will look at you in disbelieve, however if you get a professional to do it you do not need eyes on the end. Much neater and the cost of doing it is forgotten in 2 weeks anyway.
All you do is knot a bowline at the end of the strop (loose end) into the clew ring. Works very well. Our gybes have improved out of all sight.
Placebo effect or not it bloddy works, and that important for the crew morale.
2. 155% Genova: I just was winning a race in drifting conditions 5-6knots with a 100 % jib blade (yes blade not the fuller class version) and a standard full main. I do not know why people want a 155% Genova on such a easily driven boat. Maybe 135% at the most, ask Jay Lutz from North Sails he is the guru on sails. The main is a big main and can be powered up quite dramatically, so before you rush out and get a big 155% genova think again.
I have one sitting next to me. I used it once, it is ugly, old hat and a waste of time. To be honest the only thing I think is good for is to use it as a winter cover for the boat or give it to the kids for camping or for a cubby house.
Seriously, I do not think you will need it.

As to the kite o.5. It is very unlikely that you will blow up the kite, more likely you will damage the kite while handling it on the boat.
Again talk to Jay Lutz and get you kite made out of airex 500 or airex 600. You may pay a bit more but you will have a .75 ounce strenght for the weight of 0.5 (airex 500) Better spend money than the useless genova 155%
If North is cutting you sails have a talk and see if they upgrade it for you. With a kite out of Airex 500 and 600 in the high load areas you will have a all purpose kite. light enough to fly it in a drifter without worring obout a bit of air say 20-25knots. Make it easy for yourself, only carry gear you can use confidentally in your conditions. If you worry about you .5 kite, change the order and do it quick.....

Yes you bought a wonderful boat. Keep it simple and easy, try to have a sail set with suits 80% of you conditons. I do not believe that you change you headsail every race and carry a whole wardrobe of sails. I have 2 sets of sails one for the season (heavy air) and one for the off season Light air. I just keep the same jib on the furler week after week and just change the rigging to fit the different conditions.
You should have no problems changing you sail plan for a range of say 4 -18 knots. If you do not carry all the sails with you you save a lot of weight, the boat is clean, and the crew will learn to change the sail setting rather than always ask for a sail change which is slow, coumbersome and shows a lack of trimming skills.

Keep it simple, that why we have a j/80

Have fun

Bob von Felten

PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2001 8:36 am
by Guest
To Bob von Felten: Your posts are fun to read; thank you for taking the time on them. Re your question about getting the clew of the spin wrapped on the forestay. It is so common, and such a disaster on the race course, the people at J World suggest the following, which I have found works very well. You may know most of this already.

Execute the jibe quite slowly. As the skipper starts the jibe, the trimmer should ease the spin sheet till the clew is even with the forestay. The chute must be full at all times. The crew then pulls like a mad man on the opposite sheet while the sail trimmer does the same. Be careful of butt cleats, which often cause the wrap we don't want. Once the clew is well passed the forestay, the problem is avoided. Err on the side of over trimming the sail and easing afterward. The skipper will help matters if he executes the whole jibe in one slow even motion.

Are you doing that way and still getting a wrap?

PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2001 8:43 am
by Guest
Finally had eye splices put in spinnaker sheets and got spectra strop with eye. $34 total done by local rigger. I have to admit that not only does it look much better, but much easier to jibe in lite wind.

PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2001 12:09 pm
by Guest
Ken,
good to hear that you got you splicing done. It also works well in heavy air.
What is $ 34 for you local rigger, compared to the satifacion of muliple perfect gybes?

I do not care if it is for real or a placebo effect, as long as we do not srew up the gibes...

Enjoy Bob