Difference between 135 and 155 Genoa

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Postby Guest » Mon Aug 06, 2001 8:16 pm

I’m new to the J 80 class, just purchased # 174 and will be sailing on Lake Lanier in Georgia. Most of the time we do not have really strong winds, generally below 10 knots, and as such is seeking information on what recommendation anyone can make in regards to a new Genoa. I’m not aware of any other J 80’s on our lake and will therefore sail mainly in PHRF races. Thank you in advance for any help.

Postby Guest » Mon Aug 06, 2001 8:42 pm

First you need to know how you're local PHRF authority will rate you with various size genoas, there is no national standard. Some owners advocate use of a 135-139% because where they race the rating penalty begins or increases at 140%. If you're in this situation, the smaller headsail makes sense. However, if you're like me and I believe most areas, you're going to be penalized pretty much in proportion to the size genoa you buy. In this case, you already have a class jib for winds above 10 kts, if you're going to go to the expense of buying a genoa, why would you get anything but the largest available? The difference in upper wind range isn't that significant and you'll have that much more sail area when it's really light out there. That's why I have a Quantum 155% which you can carry up to 8-10 knots, I give up 6 secs mile for it. You really need to know how PHRF is going to treat your genoa choice first.

Postby Guest » Tue Aug 07, 2001 9:56 am

Soren, seek out Chuck Weaver on Lake Lanier. He races an Elliott 770 "Dream Weaver" now but had his J-80 rigged fast for the lake when he owned one.

Postby Guest » Tue Aug 07, 2001 7:43 pm

Thank you both. Below is what I learned from Chuck. Might help in other parts of the country.

The 117 basae PHRF rating is with a
155.0% Jenoa. Our present standard handicap adjustments for the head sail

Genoa Adjustment J-80 base + adjustment

145.1 - 155.0 0 117
135.1 - 145.0 +3 120
125.1 - 135.0 +6 123
Up to 125.0 +9 126

I found the J-80 preformed to its rating best using the 135.0% jenoa.


Postby Guest » Wed Aug 08, 2001 3:42 pm

You should take those numbers and run! On Galveston Bay, J/80's rate 120 in ODR configuration, 117 with 139% and 114 with 114% genoa.

By the way, I've found that sailing in ODR configuration is not as painful as you might think. Several years ago, I gave up my genoa as we had enough boats to race one-design for most events locally. Since then, I've raced ODR at 120 for the few events where we do not generate a one-design class. We have not finished worse than second in class in PHRF events, and it makes good practice for racing one-design in varying conditions.

Several weeks ago, we finished first in class, second in fleet in the TORC Offshore Freeport Regatta. This included a fair amount of light-air jib reaching, and light-air downwind legs. The only boat that beat us overall was a Farr 37. We beat a fleet that included (among others)a Aerodyne 38, Beneteau 47.7, Express 37, J/105 using genoa and 89sq m spinnaker, Tartan Ten, Santana 35, Morgan 42, and CF 27. Unfortunately, we were the small boat in the fleet and had to aggressively defend our start and clear air jib reaching out through the jetties. We struck a submerged object in 7-9 feet of water while doing 6.5 knots and did our best to separate the keel from the hull. Pumping the bilge every 10 to 15 minutes and hitting a top speed of 11 knots, we finished second in fleet in that race to secure our overall position. The repair shop and the insurance company have promised the boat to be ready for re-launching by Friday.

Postby Guest » Wed Aug 08, 2001 3:45 pm

Should be 114 with 155% genoa...

Postby Guest » Wed Aug 08, 2001 5:02 pm


I agree with Steve! Good numbers! Course it is all relative to the ratings of the other boats in the fleet. Here in Austin Texas a J80 ODR is 117 and the PHRF rating is 111. I believe thats with a 155 but I'm not sure that distinction has been made. The base boat is a J29 MH/OB at 111.

I think ours is a little harsh but I'm sure most owners believe that about their rating. It sure hasn't motivated me to do much handicap racing though.

Postby Guest » Wed Aug 08, 2001 11:45 pm


Impressive finish at TORC.. you guys looked sharp working your way out of the jetties in Galveston.

We've raced a few time on Lake Travis using a class jib. My boat actually came with a large mainsail and brand new 135 which I promptly sold.

Jeff Jones (Aerodyne 38) / (J80 # 67)

Postby Guest » Sat Oct 13, 2001 10:36 am

Here in Minnesota, the ODR rating is 120, J29s are between 111 to 100 depending on config. J27 is 120, J24 is 168-171. We race with a 139% genoa and we rate at 117.

We race primarily in dying breezes in the evening. Our normal wind is probably 8kn at the start dropping to 6kn or lower at the end. We chose the 139 over the 155 for the following reasons:

1. Here, rating penalty is 3 secs for 139, 6 secs for larger.

2. Per North, the slot tends to get choked off with the 155 causing lots of main backwind. They feel that the 139 was a better fit to the boat and rig.

3. The 139 is pretty much done by 10-12kn. While the sail would handle it up to apparent of about 23kn, the boat is on its ear. The 155 would be done at 8kn. Therefore, the range for the 139 is much wider.

4. Sail changes on our courses would be deadly since we race on a large river and there are usually lots of relatively short legs.

5. The range of the 139 takes us very nicely into the lower wind ranges. When it gets to be a drifter, the 155 would probably be better, but that's where it gets to be a crapshoot anyhow and course position (being to the edges) is probably more important than sail size.

6. The boat has *plenty* of power with the 139. It is a completely different boat than with the ODR jib. In point of fact, it seems to fit the application so well, its hard for me to believe that a larger sail would be better. Since range would be narrower, slot is tighter, etc.. I can really see this being alot more fooling around.

We really made a difference in our placing in series with this sail. Last 4 years, we had a unpredictable placement in series since our wind speed variation seemed to be a serious problem for us. In windier series, we did well, in the light stuff we choked. With this added sail, we are consistently placing 2-3 in series. We are in a very competitive fleet with anyone of 5 boats going for the top 3 spots until the last race of the series. We get our share of the bullets with this sail.

Highly recommend this sail. If you are racing PHRF in the midwest, I can't believe this isn't a very necessary sail for your J80.


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