Life Lines

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Postby Guest » Fri Apr 04, 2003 2:18 pm

FYI

For all of us that were measuring the difference in the life line heights between the U.S. and French boats in Austin, the ruling from the tech committe is ( No lowering of stanchion height will be allowed on the U.S. Boats at this time ).

Robert Miller
JESTER
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Postby Guest » Fri Apr 04, 2003 7:52 pm

Sail on the French boats and you will find they are less comfortable,soft, and generally not as good as the US boats. A person who will remain anonymous has nearly fallen off the boat due to them....
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Postby Guest » Fri Apr 04, 2003 10:30 pm

If we ever sail in lighter air on the Southern Circuit the lower stanchions might have some benefit. In the heavy stuff, sliding down under the lifelines and put your butt on the rail is the best leverage.
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Postby Guest » Sun Apr 06, 2003 12:43 am

As I understand the intent, ANYTHING built onto ANY boat as equipped from THE FACTORY is legal. So why do I have to have stanchions taller than anyone elses? If the French boats come from the factory with 2" shorter stanchions, then I am at a disadvantage in high winds. As long as we are at it, lets measure lifeline tension/deflection. Atleast that is an actual rule with defined values. If the specifications cannot be controlled at the builder level how are owners to actually get equal boats. Is a modification package with taller stanchions coming out for the French boats? If not, then the hacksaw is coming out. };~0>
Tom Gore
Javelin #36
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Postby Guest » Sun Apr 06, 2003 2:40 am

I would like to compliment the members of Austin Y.C. for such a professional Race Committee and the J24 fleet for having great course management in such difficult conditions. Also to the winners, I offer my congratulations.
I was little bothered with the noticeable changes in the US vs. French boats. All the changes I saw were advantages to the boats that are French made. Simple things like less metal work and more wood main sheet cleats are on a elevated pad, molded winch pads, lower stanchions, push pit and bow, the Stanchions seemed angled and were lighter, the lifelines were the biggest thing, just the fact that the lifeline wire was continuous around the bow through the pulpit of the boat thus allowing for more give and allowing more efficient hiking. Who’s to say that the rigs weigh the same, has anyone weighed the tip of the rigs yet? Yes I would a mast that wouldn’t bend as much as the Hall rigs do maybe then I can sail with a lot less tension.
This is really hard to think that we are International One Design Class with these types of changes in the boats. Did the French ever submit a list of changes that they made for class approval? And why is we can’t get the Hacksaw and make it little bit even. I’ve seen this in classes before and it was the beginning of the end.


David Hammett
USA # 87 DnA
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Postby Guest » Sun Apr 06, 2003 10:14 am

The situation with the French boats is not all that hard to understand if you look at the way it developed. For the benefit of those who are relatively new to the class it may be worthwhile here to explain a little of the history of events.

The French builder was commissioned by Jboats long before the class went international. At that time it was just Jboats working with a French builder to try and develop a European market for a new boat. The French designed a product to use the fittings and spars that were available in Europe and made modifications to the deck and accomodation to suit their market and manufacturing process. Forcing the French to conform in every way to the US product was unneccessary and impractical.

The reconciliation of the two products is a matter that needs to be addressed by the class, in an international effort. We cannot expect Jboats to do that.

I know French bashing has become popular, but to be fair, the Europeans might just as well be asking when TPI is going to issue new lower stanchions to all of the US boats.

I don't know how many of you remember the graceful way that the Harken OO was introduced into our one-design world. If you want one design, you have to step up and represent the class interest.
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Postby Guest » Mon Apr 07, 2003 10:06 am

This is obviously an issue that needs to be addressed promptly and fairly in order to prevent dissention within the class. There are clear advantages to sailing with shorter stanchions, which is why most class rules specify a minimum height for them. Unfortunately, our rules do not. They do, however, prohibit owners from altering factory-spec equipment. These constraints are the cause of this problem that needs prompt resolution. Regardless of whether the class was yet International, I think it was shortsighted of J-Boats to allow an overseas builder to change a performance-oriented specification such as stanchion height. Most of the other differences between US and European boats can be categorized as convenience or aesthetic differences, but stanchion height needs to be equalized somehow. I believe our Chief Measurer is in the process of measuring the other items such as rig weight in order to determine if there are substantial differences in other performance-related areas.
It seems the simplest solution right now would be to put forward a rule change proposal mandating a minimum stanchion height equal to the factory equipment on the French boats, thereby allowing owners of US built boats to cut theirs down. Until such a rule is passed, however, it seems that it is a violation of class rules to alter factory stanchions. For the good of the class, I think we need to exercise a bit of restraint and allow the system to work. Can anyone tell me the height of the French stanchions so we can formulate the proposed change? As an aside, what is the height of the US stanchions (i.e. how much taller are they)?
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Postby Guest » Mon Apr 07, 2003 10:47 am

This may be a silly question, but how many french built boats are over here?

I'm only aware of one on the Southern Circuit. It's a well sailed boat, and I would be hard pressed to say it's because of their stanchion height.

The last two Southern Circuit events saw some pretty heavy air but I believe US built boats won both events.

My point is, yes this is an issue that needs to be addressed (particularly since an international event is not far off) but c'mon, the way some of these posts read you'd think the french were sneaking in booster engines.

Just my .02

T-
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Postby Guest » Mon Apr 07, 2003 11:35 am

There were two French-built boats at the first two Southern Circuit events, and several more are due to arrive in Texas this week. Both French boats finished in the top 5 in both events. They are both very well-sailed and I do not think that one of us would have finished as well just by sailing a French boat, however, there is no disputing that shorter stanchions improve performance and that is the point.
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Postby Guest » Mon Apr 07, 2003 7:41 pm

Chris,
The French stanchions are approx. 2 1/2 inches shorter than the U.S. The french boats are rigged with a continuous life line that will pass the delection test but will deflect a lot more just by putting additional pressure on them because of the length and the way they are rigged. To me it seemed a little more comfortable with the shorter lifelines. It would be hard to judge any difference by the outcome of regattas, the guy's on the French boats could win if they had cast Iron bow rails off the Titanic on thier boats. I do believe J-Boats needs to evaluate what kind of message they are sending us, the French J-80 has a lot of subtle changes that may have a few Americans checking the rate of the Euro.......

Robert
JESTER
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Postby Guest » Thu Jul 10, 2003 2:54 pm

It sure is quiet here any word on past discussions like, ????
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Postby Guest » Fri Jul 11, 2003 9:14 am

If you check the proposed rule changes recently posted, you will note there is a proposal to mandate a minimum lifeline height.
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